Record Collecting for Girls Author Courtney E. Smith on Mix Tapes and Makeout Music

by Melissa Locker

You probably have a lot of opinions about music, but Record Collecting for Girls author Courtney E. Smith has even more. In her music-nerd manual (which comes out today), Smith tackles such pressing musical issues as guilty pleasure songs, Top Five Lists, and what it means to like The Smiths too much. And since each essay in the book comes with a playlist, the only way to do this interview properly was to head over to Turntable.fm to spin some tunes and chat about music.

@courtneyesmith started playing “Lowdown” by Boz Scaggs

woolyknickers: Wow. This is not where I thought we would start this interview.
@courtneyesmith: Yes, really. This is happening.
woolyknickers: So…er, what does Boz Scaggs mean to you?
@courtneyesmith: Nothing at all, I happened to subscribe to Washed Out’s playlist on Spotify and this was on it, to my surprise. And then it got stuck in my head. It means Washed Out are really messing with my mind.
woolyknickers: I don’t think I’ve ever had Boz Scaggs stuck in my head before
@courtneyesmith: I swear, listen to that playlist. The flow is just…really impressive. It made me like a Boz Scaggs song.

woolyknickers started playing “I Want You” by Elvis Costello & The Attractions

woolyknickers: I chose this song because 1. Three different boys put this on mix tapes for me in college and 2. I want to talk about your top five lists.
@courtneyesmith: Woah woah woah. Did any of those boys ever actually listen to this song? It is #1 on my playlist of the best psychotic stalker songs of all time. This is not a romantic song!
woolyknickers: Right?!! It’s crazy stalker stuff that guys lazily think is “romantic.”
@courtneyesmith: Good lord. Boys don’t listen to the lyrics enough. Once a guy put Otis Redding’s “Tramp” on a mix for me. I was like…um, what’s the message here buddy?
woolyknickers: Ha! What other songs are on your RUN list?
@courtneyesmith: The worst I’ve ever heard was one a British guy did for one of my girlfriends. Hurricane #1 “Step Into My World.” It seems nice on the face of it, but something about that song is so oppressive on a mix. I.would.never. It’s always the heavy-handed love songs that get you. Also anything Bright Eyes. I know several people would disagree with me.
woolyknickers: Bright Eyes = Bad? Or Good?
@courtneyesmith: Bad
woolyknickers: I agree. He’s too earnest and he cries a lot. You can’t have sex with that.
@courtneyesmith: Right? Be in love with me a little more ironically…or at least promise not to write a song about what a bitch I was when we break up.
woolyknickers: Who would you want to write a song about you?
@courtneyesmith: Honestly, no one. I’ll do the writing, thanks! There’s this line in a Death Cab song… “For What Reason” and I think he nails it. It goes something like, “In the end I win every time as ink remains.” Writing songs is like writing history. Whoever does the writing dictates how the relationship is remembered forever.

@courtneyesmith started playing “Dance This Mess Around” by The B-52’s

@courtneyesmith: We got completely off track from top fives!
woolyknickers: I know! So according to your rules, I have no bands in my top 5. The Replacements would be the closest.
@courtneyesmith: You don’t own the full discography of any band???
woolyknickers: Nope. It’s never been important to me to have all the albums.
@courtneyesmith: You’re just not a completist. I like to think of that as not having OCD.
woolyknickers: I really don’t have OCD.
@courtneyesmith: And you may look forward to never being on an episode of Hoarders!
woolyknickers: Life goal #1
@courtneyesmith: I’m waiting for an episode that features a person with a huge record collection. 78s, but nothing to play them on.

woolyknickers started playing “Young Turks” by Rod Stewart

@courtneyesmith: Oooh I love this song.
woolyknickers: In your book you say you want this played at your funeral
@courtneyesmith: I do.
woolyknickers: What about this songs says “funeral playlist”?
@courtneyesmith: Nothing at all. Everything else on my funeral greatest hits list is a bit sober, bordering on appropriate. I want this to come on and for everyone to chuckle. So they can remember I was slightly funny sometimes, winking slyly at them even in death. If they don’t laugh, they’re out of the will.
woolyknickers: Speaking of which, how big is your record collection?
@courtneyesmith: I decided a few years ago to cap physical product at 1000 units. But if you factor in digital albums since then…goodness, I need to do another inventory. 1000 fills the floor of a closet in my apartment right now.
woolyknickers: Oh. You’re no hoarder either.
@courtneyesmith: I am unlikely to be buried alive because I have them neatly numbered and things are still aphabetical.
woolyknickers: Do you have vinyl or CDs?
@courtneyesmith: Mostly CDs, but a few things (like a lot of Elvis Costello’s catalog) I keep on vinyl. For me vinyl is mostly nostalgic. If I really like the way the art looks in that format then I get it.
woolyknickers: Do you consider yourself a vinyl nerd at all?

@courtneyesmith started playing “Northern Sky” by Nick Drake

@courtneyesmith: I really don’t. I started out as a little kid collecting vinyl. Remember those Disney storybooks with the 45 in the back? That was my formative record collection. It was me, a Fisher-Price record player and my Julian Lennon record for a long time. And then it was me, a tape recorder, and the radio making mixtapes.
woolyknickers: Julian Lennon, eh?
@courtneyesmith: Major 8 year old crush on him. In spite of the mullet and the earrings.
woolyknickers: What was his song?
@courtneyesmith: “Too Late For Goodbyes.” LIFE CHANGER. Not really, but everyone had something. Pictures from Teen Beat of Kirk Cameron on your walls, Simon LeBon fold outs….oooooor Julian Lennon vinyl.

woolyknickers started playing “Hot Rock” by Sleater-Kinney

@courtneyesmith: Sleater-Kinney
woolyknickers: Sleater-Kinney is in your Top 5
woolyknickers: How did you discover them?
@courtneyesmith: Oh the cover of the Dallas Observer. It was that late 90s madness for covering lady bands, they were a few albums into their career and…just reading about it made me want to know what they were all about. And I found myself slowly buying all their albums. It felt more real than…I dunno, Garbage? Who were always just Butch Vig’s band with a girl singer anyway.
woolyknickers: It’s hard to imagine Garbage and Sleater-Kinney in the same category of music. But I guess that happens to “girl bands.”

@courtneyesmith started playing “Buffalo Stance” by Neneh Cherry

@courtneyesmith: I’m fixated on this song lately. It really stands the test of time.
woolyknickers: Which is weird, because it kinda shouldn’t.
@courtneyesmith: It came out in what…1989? When everything was C+C Music Factory and Roxette. Amazing that this was next to them on MTV.
woolyknickers: Speaking of which, you worked at MTV for years and I understand we have you to thank for Pete Wentz.
@courtneyesmith: I did, which is how I understand how this ended up on MTV. There’s always that annoying person who thinks they’re soooo smart and makes you put stuff like Neneh Cherry on. It’s the passion play. Oh god, don’t remind me about Pete Wentz. I swear. I didn’t know it would go down like that.
woolyknickers: How exactly did you end up as a Fall Out Boy booster?
@courtneyesmith: Strictly by pointing out the numbers, honestly. I was handling online music programming for mtvU and Fall Out Boy were in one of our voting shows. They didn’t even win, I don’t think. But it kept steadily getting traffic. So I mentioned it and said perhaps we should go ahead and program that video. Seemed innocuous enough at the time…So when their next album came out we decided to get behind them in a bigger way on mtvU and film with them. Turned out they had camera-ready personalities. Not everyone does. An amazingly small number of new artists do. And then that rock started rolling and bulldozed the music landscape.
woolyknickers: Well on behalf of tween girls everywhere I would like to thank you for Pete Wentz.

woolyknickers started playing “Better Version Of Me” by Fiona Apple

woolyknickers: So I picked this song because Fiona Apple is in your top five and I have never heard Fiona Apple. Mostly because I didn’t think she was cool to listen to.
@courtneyesmith: Yes, yes she is. We are chronically inseparable in times of trouble, Fiona and I. She wasn’t cool, she was commercial, and writing songs straight out of her journal on that first album. But I was 18 then and emotionally self-indulgent as ladies that age are sometimes inclined to be. It feels like we’ve grown up together, but haven’t necessarily grown out of our bad habits. There’s that moment after you get disappointed in life — doesn’t even have to relate to love — where you get really self-indulgent. And you pitch a little fit to yourself, or have a little cry. Basically stop to acknowledge the injustice of it all.
woolyknickers: And listen to The National over and over again?
@courtneyesmith: Or Fiona Apple. It’s a security blanket, it’s “no one understands me and f-you all” music. Also, it’s nice to know that no matter how crazy I feel when I lose it…there’s someone else out there who is also crazy. It’s comforting.

woolyknickers started playing “Borderline” by Madonna

woolyknickers: In one of the chapters in your book you talk about the new Madonna. Who are the most likely candidates? And do we need a “new” Madonna when she is still making music and we have her back catalogue?
@courtneyesmith: Well here’s the thing: I think who may be the next Madonna is a lot less interesting than why everyone feels like they need to keep crowning people the next Madonna. Also, I find it highly suspicious that the whole conversation started when the old Madonna had a kid. I’m just saying. Ultimately I think the old Madonna has been losing ground on her Madonna slot though. She’s not doing what 90s Madonna did and really changing, giving us the unexpected all the time. She’s still trying so hard to be sexy. I’d be cool with it if she did something with more depth that was unsexy.
woolyknickers: Right. The way some people say MIA is irrelevant since she had a kid
@courtneyesmith: By some people do you mean Diplo? He’s brutal to her in the press. I think that’s an interesting dynamic too. The exboyfriend producer who always has to talk about her. You never hear her talk about him unless she’s asked. He can’t stop bringing it up. Career envy.

@courtneyesmith started playing “Some Velvet Morning” by Nancy Sinatra

woolyknickers: So since you put on Nancy Sinatra, I have to ask, do you think you actively seek out female acts?
@courtneyesmith: I do these days. A few years back I went through a big ’60s girl group and female jazz singer phase. I like to give myself little projects and try to learn about new areas of music.
woolyknickers: Who are some of your favorite discoveries?
@courtneyesmith: My favorite discovery from that period was Honey Bees “Hey Girls.” It’s a random Swedish woman and just…weirdly a great song. I also love Julie London a lot. I feel like she’s majorly underrated and written off because of her film career… but man her delivery will bring a tear to your eye sometimes.
woolyknickers: Like Dusty Springfield?
@courtneyesmith: Also Astrud Gilberto, god I love her weird voice. I feel like Dusty Springfield gets a lot of credit, thanks to Pulp Fiction.
woolyknickers: You don’t think she deserves it?
@courtneyesmith: She totally deserves it, I think she’s perfectly rated. Not under, not over. Just right! Oh and Shirley Horn. I picked up something in the sale bin at Amoeba of hers once and she’s brilliant.

woolyknickers started playing “Call Your Girlfriend” by Robyn

@courtneyesmith: Even in current music though, I’d say I do seek out female artists more. I like to hear female voices.
woolyknickers: Like Robyn?
@courtneyesmith: Yes! And Lykke Li. And Bat for Lashes.
woolyknickers: Lykke Li and Robyn have soooo many songs about love and cheating and relationships. Sometimes I find that tiring.

@courtneyesmith started playing “Will Do” by TV On The Radio

@courtneyesmith: Even in men today there are not very many people writing overtly political songs. It’s all very much about love, good or bad. Love sells?
woolyknickers: Love sells. Speaking of which, I love your book. I felt like we were friends in a bar talking about music. I really wanted to talk to you about the essays. Like, I wanted to tell you about “I Want You” being on mixtapes so you could confirm that it’s crazycakes.
@courtneyesmith: Ha! It is not okay. NOT ROMANTIC. So here’s how I thought about it while I wrote… I actually thought about specific girlfriends of mine for most of the essays. Things we’d discussed, points they’d made I wanted to refute. And then wrote as if I were writing to them. A few of them actually saw themselves in it and we’ve had emails about it since they read the book. All good, except the part where I said that someone with no guilty pleasures is an asshole. The girlfriend I was thinking of while writing that essay loves a ton of pop music. And that’s fine. My problem is she absolutely recognizes low and high brow in cinema and TV. But tries to insist that it doesn’t exist in music. Girl, no. That and I was thinking about the number of essays I’ve read by men who to try to validate KISS’s career.
woolyknickers: Ugh or RUSH. I have a theory that no girl actually likes Rush
@courtneyesmith: Oh, I would co-sign that. I don’t know any girls who like Rush.
woolyknickers: What are your musical guilty pleasures?
@courtneyesmith: Lately I have to say Ke$ha. Which seems trendy, I know. All the music writers like Ke$ha all of a sudden.

@courtneyesmith started playing “Clover Over Dover” by Blur

@courtneyesmith: I just like the underdog I think. That is how the Pussycat Dolls became my guilty pleasure.
woolyknickers: Whoa.
@courtneyesmith: Yeah. I know.
woolyknickers: Did you watch the reality show where they cast a new Pussycat?
@courtneyesmith: Uh no I’m not that invested. It’s a guilty pleasure! I don’t own their albums, or even songs. It’s just like when I need it…I go YouTube it and have a moment and then move on without telling anyone. GUILTY. It was so on the DL I didn’t even think about liking them until my friend Gina, who was a co-worker at MTV talked to me about the Guilty Pleasures essay in my book and was like…umm you don’t even know it and the Pussycat Dolls are your guilty pleasure.
woolyknickers: I sort of feel like that about Rihanna.

woolyknickers started playing “What’s My Name? (Feat. Drake)” by Rihanna

@courtneyesmith: Oh god, I can’t help it. I love this song.
woolyknickers: I know!
@courtneyesmith: They obviously put crack in it. I was saying about the Pussycat Dolls as underdogs…
so whenever that was a thing, every time we’d get one of their videos at MTV it was…hmmm, no one was excited. You know you’re going to play it but everyone was not into them. And I started to feel bad for the Pussycat Dolls. Those songs are just as catchy as the new T.I. or whatever.

courtneyesmith started playing “Square Pegs” by The Waitresses

woolyknickers: In your book, you make a lot of music lists. Have you ever met your match when it comes to making lists?
@courtneyesmith: Yes, but our relationships were always platonic. It’s hard to have two music nazis in one relationship.
woolyknickers: So what would your Match.com dating profile say? No music nazis?
@courtneyesmith: Hahaha! No…but I would look closely at things like how many bands a guy lists. If it’s a lot then you know you’ve got trouble on your hands. Or if it’s a staunch dedication to a singular band it better be one I like. I’m not listening to Phish every night for the rest of my life.

@courtneyesmith started playing “Cruel To Be Kind” by Nick Lowe

@courtneyesmith: This song is for all the men I won’t date.
woolyknickers: Ha! Are there other bands that are deal breakers?
@courtneyesmith: Yes. The Smiths. I do not date men who like The Smiths too much.
woolyknickers: Really?! Why?
@courtneyesmith: I already know it won’t work out, but we can be friends and you can tell me all your neurotic thoughts about every girl you do date who isn’t good enough for various reasons.
woolyknickers: And what band means you are made for each other?
@courtneyesmith: Oooh that’s a good question. I don’t think there is one. I’d just like to have tastes that are similar enough to not be irritating and different enough so that there’s always a sense of exploration. Like me, but not too much like me. It’s like that with everything though, isn’t it? Not just music.
woolyknickers: Sounds about right.

Courtney E. Smith’s Record Collecting for Girls is out today.

Melissa Locker may very well be a music nerd.